Hands Off, My Loots!

Recently there was a rather large debate that started in the EVE-Bloggers Channel ingame, I only made it in for the last part of it.  I’ve read the chat logs of the discussion, as well as Vol’s post about it, and have some things I’d like to say.

Before I start though…let me explain a bit about myself.  In game I am an arrogant ass that likes to take peoples shit, coax them into shooting me so I can splatter them all over the place, and then take their shit again.  Why do I do this?…because EVE is a harsh place…and it was designed to be that way.  BUT…in the real world, I’m a nice guy…married with 2 kids.  I give to charity, I volunteer to help people when I can…and I don’t rob banks.  For those of you who think that ingame = inlife…you are wrong.  (This statement is not aimed at anyone in particular…just wanted to say that I value everyone’s opinion.  I may not agree with them, but I will never stoop to personal insults or rudeness when having a discussion while not in character…it just isn’t me).

So here follows my ‘opinion’ and ‘unique-view’ on some of the things that Vol mentioned in the blog post I listed above.

The first part of his post mentions people being able to get around the criminal aggression timer for outlaws by using orcas, etc…I don’t know anything about it since I’m not an outlaw, and I didn’t realize it worked like that.  So that’s all I’ll be saying about that, and for obvious reasons…the rest of this post will be about the Ninja Salvaging portion of mine and Vol differing opinions.  Also, to make it a bit more streamlined, I’m going to respond to things that Vol says…without mentioning that he said them…he knows what he wrote, and since this blog post is actually more of a long comment for him on my opinions…i don’t think I need to repeat everything he said and make this post twice as long (though I’ve already done so from all this mumbling about it…oops)

Ninja Salvagers vs. Risk

I’m not going to lie and say we take all kinds of risk…but I do think we take ‘some’ risk.  We have our reputations to worry about ya know!  Also, when I come into a mission…sometimes people like to shoot at me.  Sometimes after I take their stuff, sometimes even before.  Granted…I am flying a cheap ship most times…but I have been killed before…so however small it is…that is a risk I take when I enter a mission to collect my salvage.

Salvaging and Looting Mechanics

One thing I did agree with Vol on was that it is strange that CCP says the wreck is not ‘owned’ by anyone…yet only the killer of the rat can loot, or tractor the wreck.  I think that if the wreck is not owned by anyone…anyone should be able to tractor it.  The loot I agree with…as it is not part of the wreck, it is something inside of it, but the wreck itself should be tractorable by all…it makes sense.

Saying that Ninjas should be flashy for salvaging is the oldest argument in the book.  It has been beaten to death, and CCP has stated it is meant to be like that, they designed it to be like that, they LIKE it like that, and it will not change…get over it!

“CCP has been very clear about this topic.”

I lied a little earlier…I have to quote Vol on this topic…I can’t talk clearly about it without having a reference to what I’m responding to.

CCP has also made mistakes in the past. A lot of them. Big ones. CCP is not infallible. To use the defense that it is structured that way, intended that way, legal that way, is very scary, in New Eden and out. Something is just, balanced, and fair based on its own merits, not because the game designer says so.

What?  This is CCPs game…not ours.  They made it, they decide what to do with it, THEY decide if it is balanced or not.  Yes, they may take opinions from players if they want…but they certainly don’t have to.  And in this case…they have decided not to…as can be proven here.  I agree that something is balanced based on it’s own merits…but the game designers are the ones that determine those merits…so actually, if they say it’s balanced…it is…because it’s THEIR game.

Eve is dangerous and you are never completely safe.

I agree that there should be more risk for Ninja Salvagers…I truly do.  I do not however think that risk should come from the act of salvaging…for the simple fact that it doesn’t make sense…for wreck ownership reasons stated above that will not be changing. Definition of salvage…I don’t see anything about ownership in there…do you?

There are plenty of other ways to make my job harder…and those are the ones I think we should consider.  (Though…I feel adding something into the New Player experience about the topic would be helpful…tell the noobs to quit shooting at me).

(oh, and a bit off topic since I’m not talking about suicide gankers here…but this statement “Today, the suicide pirate falls onto your kill rights board, but the hauler next too him does not.” makes no sense…you can shoot the hauler that takes the stuff out of your wreck )

The Rest of It

EVE is a harsh place.  It was designed that way…and it is why most people play it.  When you log into the game you realize that PvP is around the corner.  It was DESIGNED to be that way.  So the arguement that people use saying…”well, I don’t want to be forced to PvP”…you are playing the wrong game then…that is what EVE is about!

By saying that you don’t want to be forced into PvP because it is unfair to you is hypocritical.  In order to allow you to have a choice of PvP or not, you would have to take that choice away from the person that was trying to kill you…which would ruin the game.

I just can’t think of any better way to explain it because it’s just hard for me to fathom in my mind how people can say they don’t want to be forced into PvP in a PvP oriented game.  This isn’t World of Warcraft…there is not PvE server to choose from.

I don’t feel that carebears are inferior…we need them…we need ships, and we need people to make wrecks for us…it is a legitimate play style.  BUT…whether you are a carebear or not, PvP is around the corner…and that will not change do to the nature of the game.

Everyone wants to play the game their own way…and that is possible within the design limits of the game.  If you go over to World of Warcraft on a PvP server…you expect to find PvP…even in the noob zones…well…guess what, EVE is that PvP Server.

The Blogoverse

I completely agree with Vol on this one.  There have been a few bloggers that turned this into some sort of personal flame war…complete with insults and belittling.  I thought all of us were above that.  People have opinions…and they can be discussed and argued in a manner that doesn’t try and belittle anyone.  I would think that us bloggers, out of everyone, should understand that.

p.p.s I meant to mention this earlier: all spawns should be like Sleeper spawns. I don’t like kill missions cause they are just one big rinse/repeat. The only way the mission can defeat you is through sheer numbers. It should work smarter, not harder. Making the spawns smarter will not only give the missioners a challenge, but make things more interesting for the ninjas.

I agree   I laugh at those people that leave some Battleship spawns in their missions hoping they kill me.  Have you ever tried killing those frigates in mission with your Battleship?…guess what…same result the other way around.  I’d love to actually have to worry about those rats you guys leave behind…because right now…if it’s a Battlecruiser or Battleship…it has no effect on me at all…I often salvage entire rooms of wrecks while I speedtank 8 Rat Battleships.

p.s. I love ya Vol